Where the Trough Is Overflowing


http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/06/03/opinion/03edit-ch2.html?ref=sunday

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/where-the-trough-is-overflowing.html



Fishy

Maybe a chart that shows the payout per acre would show a better cross section.

Where the outrage? The call for someones head?

Figures absolutely nothing from the GOP defenders here on entitlement programs. I'm sure the Bachmann's arethere somewhere cashing in on this too.


Fishy

I wont defend it. I also dont understand why they need it. Feds have been paying someone in farming to grow or not grow something for a long time. Someone is picking winners and losers in farming. Coincidently, old Sam Donaldson had a sheep ranch and picked up some help. Kind of curious how much Ted Turner got for his buffalo ranch. I would have to wonder how much money the political parties are collecting. Maybe farmers are not the salt of the earth, we assumed. Its the rich who donate, not the poor. Not much difference than Solyndra.

There was a blog about the 15% ethanol issue and some guy who lives in the midwest, raises livestock, was complaining that ethanol subsidies were raising the cost of feed and land. He doesnt like it one bit.

I suspect a lot of it involves ethanol. In talking with a local food bank a couple years ago, it seems that more food gets shipped to the food banks, due to congressional help. In what form and how much is the question. Food banks have come a long way since the bread milk and cheese days, apparently. No issues with food banks, just the folks who can afford to pay and live off the charity of others.

But its also likely that any changes made to cut the costs of the program, will feature some republican with granny and a can of cat food, if Harry Reid can make it stick.

Whatever happens, it wont happen without Harry Reid. Who won Iowa in 2008?

What we need is a very clear picture of how it all works. Until you get exposure like the insider trading book, I doubt real change will happen.

Corn farmers and the corn farming lobby have ruined our gasoline, made our food less healthy, and cost us billions in subsidies that Monsanto does not need.

Fish on...

Todd

It's personally made food more expensive for me because it's hard to find food without high fructose corn syrup in it, which tastes crappy compared to sugar, is far $hittier for your health, and is in everything, thanks to the corn lobby.

Shopping at grocery stores that sell real food, rather than the poison you get at Safeway or QFC, costs real money...but it's better than eating that crap.

I'm glad it's June, the various local farmer's markets have great organic vegetables and meat now! Stock up now, can it all summer and fall, and then you won't have to eat the garbage they try and sell you in the winter and early spring around here that they call "food".

Fish on...

Todd

I have yet to get a farm subsidy for my chicken farm, but I'll have 60 or so little pasture raised organic fatties ready for slaughter and sale as of June 23rd. About 6lbs a piece, butchered and bagged, $3/lb. Real food.

I understand the crop insurance angle and support it, as that is absolutely necessary for farmers who stick their necks out all year long for one shot at revenue. One bad hail storm close to harvest can ruin an entire crop.

As to the price supports, ethanol lobby, and the direct payments, not a fan and I cannot support that. Markets need to operate without as many artificial inputs as necessary.

Go to eastern wa and most of those farmers are conservative party members and whine and howl about entitlements like SS and Medicare but the true irony and hubris is that they stand in that entitlement line for these subsidies.


Fishy

In a sea of hypocrises, the farm subsidies are just about the worst.

Fish on...

Todd

Farm subsidies make food cheap for the labor force. Remove them and watch food prices blow through the roof. Corn farmers are growing corn well below their cost to produce only profiting with subsidies. Remove the subsidies and the production of Corn, Wheat and Soy would plummet and the price would then go up. The labor pool buys food in boxes and packages of which the majority are made out of ingredients synthesized from corn, wheat and soy. Oil costs are the biggest factor in food being more expensive today not Ethanol. If you look at the charts food prices started to go up a full 4 years after Ethanol went into gas. Every element in the production of the big three involves oil. Ethanol plays a role in it but the ethanol buy products are recycled into animal feed. The bigger issue right now is low inventory and high demand. Everyone and their mother wants to plant corn right now but they have nowhere to store it. Storage facilities have only grown 10% since the Ethanol went into gas in 2006. If you are filling up your garbage can weekly with food packaging you are eating poorly. Meat and vegetables do not have HFC‘s or added sugars, whole grains come in bulk packaging and you can bring your own containers to most places selling. Read up on the Pacific garbage patch and what plastics are doing to our oceans and wildlife as you open that plastic soda bottle. Eat like a cave man and buy your food locally. Hippies were right about some things.

It is difficult to do but TJoad is right, don't eat anything with corn, soy or wheat in it. The government subsidizes that poison and sells it to us on the cheap.

Finding foods that don't contain those items, i.e. grass-fed and free range animals, organic in-season produce, and etc. is getting easier (because of the internet), but it is not cheap.

All availabile certifed non GMO avaible in multiple locations . Being healthy is not easy it is a lifestyle and it is only expensive if you are looking for a convienience diet.


amaranth
barley
buckwheat
millet
oats
Groats
quinoa
basmati rice
brown rice
rye


beans
aduki beans
azuki beans
garbanzo beans
kidney beans
lentils
mung beans
pinto beans
split peas
tempeh

+1

Unfortunately some companies feel they have a right to sell us garbage to eat, especially if they can retain the right to not tell us that it is garbage that they are trying to sell us.

I'll agree with their right to sell junk...but we should have the right to be told that it's garbage so we can make an informed decision to not buy it.

Any wonder why there is so much lobbying money spent to fight labeling anything in any truthful or informative manner?

Fish on...

Todd

Anybody down for Happy Teriyaki?

It's about .000005 cents in ink...the only thing that "raises costs" would be if people didn't buy the stuff that's full of poison that they are calling "food" that's out there.

Fish on...

Todd

I read labels a lot. And I've never been in Whole Foods (that's hippie country).

I read it...that's how I avoid eating enough HFCS to kill a cow, or to make me as fat as the average American.

Fish on...

Todd

The poison in our food kills more people and costs far more to health care than do cigarettes and alcohol combined, yet we have labeling on those that tell you they are killing you...and it took decades of fighting them and their lobbyists, and billions of dollars, to get those labels there, too.

Fish on...

Todd

lol, You are probably right.

RR proves that Hank is full of crap.

Like the evidence wasn't already overwhelming..............

He's not right.

I read food labels and I've never been to Whole Foods, either.

Hank just doesn't care because he's mostly dead already anyway.

I read lables. Mostly to be sure I'm dramatically reducing the HFCS and neuro-toxin MSG I feed to my family.

I also kill a lot of the things we eat...they rarely come labled and when they do I always have to return the collar.

You read the package on your shmokes?

Any idiot that has a lick of sense should know what food is good or bad.

I disagree that it is poison because life expectancy has gone up while people have been eating it. I view it the same as putting dirty gas in your car it just won't run to its highest potential. People are still living longer and are healthier than at anytime in history. People want cheap and easy with good taste. We have a genetic predisposition that favors high calorie ,sweet foods and salts ,don't blame your food suppliers for making what people want. The big push to Organics is mostly profit motivated. Whole foods yields a higher profit margin that Safeway. The framers that grow organic make more money. If you look into the brands of whole foods or organics you will see they are owned by the same companies producing the "poisons".

If there was more money in organic foods then you'd see the grocery stores full of organic foods...which you don't.

Some of the companies that produce 99% garbage food also produce some not-so-garbage food...but most good food is not peddled by those companies, not by a long sight.

Not sure where you're getting your info on that TJ, but more research is necessary.

Hank, I don't need to get on a soap box to get people to eat better food...frankly, I don't give a rat's [Bleeeeep!] what you eat, or what anyone else eats, except for myself and my loved ones, and I want to see what's in the food I am buying and feeding them, and I want it on the labels.

If you choose to eat crap, that's your right...I have the right to not eat crap, and I need to be able to see what's in the food so I can make that decision, and the reason it's not there is that Montsanto and one or two other companies don't want you to know how much junk is in your food.

Fish on...

Todd

The folks that should read the labels and give a chit about what they're stuffing into their gob don't.

It seems to be the younger, and dare I say more educated, demographic that reads the labels. Once you hit 250 pounds or 55 years old the need to read either doesn't matter (which it does even more so) or they just don't care. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone but I think is a fair generalization.

Not a lot of chubbies at Whole foods and not a lot of fitness freaks at Mcdonalds.

PHVCK MONTSANTO!!!!

I hate them with every fiber of my being!

Higher profit margins for organics for everyone even restaurants. It is not everywhere because it costs more. Only fools and people with more money than brains do all of their shopping at whole foods or pcc. People will eat cheap food that is easy to prepare before they will assemble a healthy meal . Lastly the term organic is misleading. Most of the organic food available is not truly organic. If I have 1000 acres that I want certified organic I just have to find one spot that test chem free. The rest of it could be a superfund site.

In many respects organic isn't 'better' for you or even that organic at all. But in some cases I and my wife think it tastes better. Organic milk, bananas and berries are just few items we always choose over non-organic. Our eggs come from my BIL's Mom and there is a BIG difference. I'd prefer all our meat came from the hunt but that's not usually the case. I am looking at getting my son on a Bison 'hunt' more for the meat than the 'hunt' not to mention the price per pound considering I do all the butchering.

There is a lot of BS marketing with organic and I realize that aspect of it but it's definately not worse than the alternative.

Makes sense to me. I enjoy gardening for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is the benefit of a better tasting, 'clean' source of food.

If only we lived in a slightly better climate that was more condusive to growing year 'round. That's one thing Calfornia has over us (there I said it but threw up a little in my mouth).

I'm fine if Tom Joad and Hankster want to eat crap from Safeway that doesn't even tell them what is in it on the label...it's America, after all, and they can eat whatever they want, and I'm in no way trying to stop them from eating GMO food or pesticides or whatever.

I, however, think that I and whomever else wants to should have the right to know what is in the food they are selling us, and that it should be right on the label so I can choose to not eat that crap.

Fish on...

Todd

As to taste if you did a blind taste test on an organic strawberry and a non organic you cannot taste the difference. Today's mass marketed crops have been selected for eye appeal and shelf life. The strawberries in the stores today are big and pulpy they also last two weeks to accommodate shipping and sitting in the store before they are sold. This reduces waste and lowers the cost. The strawberries I grow are smaller deep red and so sweet they taste like candy. Their shelf life from time of picking to turning is less than 48 hours. These plants are impossible to find now but they were all anyone grew when I was a kid. Commercial growers would go broke on them. So variety is important and most organic growers are multiple steps closer to the consumer physically so they grow more heirloom crops.

Todd, yer a freaking commie. The gubmint wil tell yo what
you need to know. People shouldn't be making
all those choices.

Todd , if you have to read a label you are buying the wrong food. Labels Only come on Prepared and packaged foods.

lol

You kill me sometimes.

Chuck, your tomatoes in the dirt or in a bucket?

fvck Wal-Mart...

I don't recall Todd being an organic fanatic until Ms. Bare Bottom showed up........am I wrong?

Organic Busch Lite Tall boys??

If they could ever come to a consensus about organic I would pay more attention to it but some studies have shown that they are no healthy than the alternatives, course they will continue to make it difficult until they figure out how to gouge us at the register.


Fishy

Todd has always tried to eat the good stuff...it just seems to be coming up as a topic here now.

I don't drink Busch Lite..ever.

Fish on...

Todd

Good....That just means more for me!!

Interesting thread.

My personal feelings on food is that I try to eat food that is one ingredient so it is not like I have to read that many labels. I.e. broccoli has just the one ingredient, steak is the same. Every now and then I will buy dressing or a condiment and I read the label and compare and try to chose the one that has the least poison (soybean, corn or wheat products) in it. So I really don't spend much time reading labels, because if you pick up food in a box, it is highly likely that you will find it is bad for you.

Whenever possible I buy local or get local products. I.e. cowpooling. Like many others I buy "organic" if it tastes better, but not because of the word organic. But, I don't stress out about it.

I really don't care what anyone outside my family eats.

This IS an interesting thread.

I think the way we, as a society, decide what foods to eat and where we decide to buy them speak volumes about what is most important to us... $$$. Most people are inclined (or, in some cases, arguably forced) to shop where food is least expensive, which leads us to places like Walmart, where a person can find healthy alternatives but is often dissuaded from purchasing them when he realizes the significantly higher cost of a freshly-prepared meal versus the heat and serve junk food on prominent display throughout the store. Factor in the time saved by not needing to cook (time is money, don't you know?), and you've got an easy sale to most Americans.

Of all the crimes being committed against humanity in the name of corporate greed, perhaps the one I find most disturbing is how we are made to pay more for raw ingredients that add up to a healthy meal than we pay for highly-processed, mass produced crap that fills our bellies (and tends to make them bigger, despite leaving us malnourished). I do my best to fight falling into the trap of supporting this trend, but I often fail, many times without even thinking about it. Popping a pizza in the oven and being done with it has a big appeal at the end of a long work day, especially when our busy lives present us with more obligations to entertain after dinner.... Which brings me to my next point:

If we're to have all the toys and services that make our lives seem somehow more worth living, we need money; more of it today than ever before. For most folks with kids, that means we need two full-time incomes. For some, that means both parents get home right around dinner time. Not only are both short on time, but they are also lacking the energy or will power to cook a healthy meal. For others, that means that Dad gets home and tags out with Mom, who works at night (or vise-versa). Mom just got out of bed, and Dad is tired and ready to relax. No cooking happening here either. Either way, the end result is often dining out (the "dollar menu") or heating up some pre-made gut filler, both of which play into the hand of Food, Inc. perfectly, but neither of which provides the nutrition the family should be getting.

I fall away much more often than I would like, but I do the best I can to combat this racket. My wife and I agreed early on that we wanted one of us to be at home with the kids and maintaining a healthy household during the day. It hasn't been easy, but we've managed to get by on my income alone. I don't have a lot of toys, but I have enough to keep me reasonably happy. Most evenings, we sit down to a home-cooked meal. Those meals don't always fit the fit and trim diet plan, but they do consist of a protein, a vegetable, and a starch (usually potatoes or rice of some sort), so they are at least well-balanced.

Like RR, I buy a lot of whole foods, and it shows in my grocery bills, which are my single largest expense every month. I also buy local whenever possible. I can sympathize with those of you who claim that shopping at Walmart, etc. is your only viable option; there are situations where that is very much the case, for a variety of reasons. All I ask of my fellow citizens is that when they compare costs of items at various retailers, they consider ALL the costs, and the social costs in particular. Often times, I suspect they would find that it's worth a few extra pennies to keep the independent businesses in town open. I also encourage everybody to eat good food, no matter what that means to you. Many of you go to great lengths to find e-0 gasoline for your boats, so why turn around and fill your body up with crap?

Read the label; set a better table.

A nutritionist friend said that to me in 1978. I haven't always since then, but mostly try to. Interesting information on some of those labels, certainly enough to steer me away from some products. Now that I'm an old fart I do check to see which ones have more or less salt, fat, and saturated fat, etc. even though I have no blood pressure issues, but I'd like to keep it that way. Mostly I buy fresh food, but we like to keep some canned vegetables on hand, especially for winter use. And I'm too lazy to make my own, so I buy marinara in jars and salad dressing.

No Whole Foods store here, but I shopped in one twice with my daughter in DC. And I received a Whole Foods reusable-recyclable grocery bag at the STP finish line one year and am still using it at both the farmer's market and the regular grocery store.

Probably gonna' cook a non-organic chicken or hamburgers tonight.

As I said above, if people want to eat garbage food from garbage stores, I think they should be able to...and it's really unfortunate that the up front costs are lower that way (forget about the down the road costs of poorer health...).

Why, though, would anyone want to stop those who choose to not eat that garbage from seeing what's in the food, right on the label? I don't care if you don't want to read the label...why would you care if I do?

Fish on...

Todd

im curious...

what do you guys deem truely "organic"?

It's on the menus at most the places I eat.

Fish on...

Todd

Truly organic seems to be a moving target and is one I would like to see rectified with some well thought out and substantive criteria.

I am with Todd also on why does it cost so much more to just get the raw ingredients instead of the pr-packaged processed crap. I was astounded when I checked some deli meat and found them to contain soy as a filler, that went right in the trash and I am now much more aware and on the look out for this.

It should not be this hard to find and have good products to consume.


Fishy

Thank goodness the Japanese still serve some meals in boxes. Usually
pretty good too.
Organic, what a laugh. It's all organic. Some just has less chemical
product extender additives. With some you get E-Coli with some
you don't.
You will pay more for the stuff that the mind tweakers on Madison
Avenue have touted.

I'm not sure that it's more expensive to eat fairly healthy. Eating all one's meals at McDonalds might cost as much or more than buying fresh foods from the grocery store, not necessarily all organic labeled, but without additives etc. Seems I read something like that once, but it wasn't recent.

It's not just eating at McDonalds or anywhere else for that matter, its that the corps have the whole game slanted in their favor and some don't even have to tell you what it is it. Just look at the Pink Slime issue, one it was out the public spoke and loudly! If its so great let them eat it, but we should have the highest standards on the planet since we are supposed to be the richest, most advanced country in the history of said planet, isn't it time we started acting like it?


Fishy

I'm in love with fast food joints......no doubt about it. I hate sitting down at a restaurant and I don't love cooking either. There are better things to do with my free time than eating. If it costs me a few years, so be it......the time I saved pondering meal ingrediants probably makes the whole thing a push.
I will say that the damn weather puts a real damper on my out of the house time, and that leads to eating crap and not clearing it from my system by working outside.

Simple and easy should not necessarily mean unhealthy and we should be able to decipher what the hell we are eating without majoring in nutrition.


Fishy

Slab, glad to read you're working on the over-population problem, not to mention SS and medicare. Fast food and America loves ya' for taking yerself out early. To each his own.

Absofuckinlutely.

to have truely organic vegetables, you must grow them yourself... you do not know what was used during the growing process, even if they tell you what is on the label...

people that pick berries, corn, ect, if they are say 600 yards away from the shack, and have to pee, do you think they are going to walk that far? nope, just wip it out, and pee right there... while Urea is a form of fertilizer, i dont consider piss grown Strawberrys organic.. organic farms also get bugs just like every other farm, and just because the pesticide may be labeled "non-toxic" is BS, its not AS toxic, but still toxic, if you want to find out, just drink some....

remember the lettuce recall not that long ago? that was because the mexican farmers where taking dumps in the fields because they were to lazy to walk... mmmmmm, Iceburg poopies...

also, in order to be categorized as "organic" in the United States, it has to have a minimum of 95 percent organic ingredients/compounds... whats the other 5 percent? last i checked, 95 percent isnt 100 percent...

your health depends on your diet, if you think eating "organic hamburgers" every single night is going to keep you healty, think again...

i too read labels, and stay away from high sodiums, foods with aspertame, fats, fillers, and other crap... but it actually goes far far past labels, its your diet that counts...

Redhook,

Organic has to do with the amount of metals in the fertilizer (chelated i believe??), not pee. manure is actually considered good fertilizer (broken down and not human of course)

Urine is sterile and non-pathogenic.

correct, fertilizers i use are either liquid organic Hydroponics solutions, and or powdered brands such as Dr. Earth, that have blood meal, bone meal, guano, oyster shells, crab shells, shrimp shells, ect...

"organic" foods do not use chemical fertilizers in any way, IE Miracle Grow, or synthetic pesticides, they use Pyrethins instead, which comes from the Chrysanthemum... but is still toxic in smaller amounts to cats, aaaaannnnnnddddd FISH... along with humans in higher amounts... the whole "organic" thing has been blown completely out of proportion.. organic farms dont use horse wagons to haul their crop, they use tractors, quads, and other machines just as others do... they also use the same water supply system as others due, as in Irrigation canals... so with the machinery, cars on the road, ect driving by the canals, leaking oil, gas, and whatnot onto the ground and roadway, then leaching into the canals, how organic, is organic?

its not hard to have a truely organic grown product, but you must do it on your own... i have taken a break from full on gardening this year, just some raspberries, and maybe some snap peas and beans throughout the summer and fall, and of course dill plants... when i do grow say tomatoes, i use a quality soil, like Fox Farms Happy Frog, or Ocean Forest, both of which are "Hot" soils, meaning they contain a large amount of nutrients in the soil, and fertilizing for quite a while is not nessecarry, i do however mix in Dr Earth, at the beginning, then just straight water through the rest of the proccess... and i get far far more tomatoes than i can ever eat, and braches break off due to the amount of weight on them if not tied up... the problem with doing it my way, is that it can get rather expensive, Happy Frog is 16+ a bag for 2 cubic feet and Ocean Forrest is 18+, compare that to Miracle Grow at 5 bucks, or generic soils at 2-5 bucks... the Hydro solutions are 8.99 a bottle, and you need all 4 bottles as the grow solutions are a 2 part process... point is, how far will YOU go to make sure your food is truely organic?

because it costs me a TON, but is worth it every single time i eat it, and i wouldnt change a thing...

what no Beastie Bloomz of Cha Ching for the final phase of "flowering"? be careful a lot of that stuff is not truly organic but can produce some crazy results............

Weren't you the one just telling everyone to familiarize yourself with whats bad and then avoid that?


Fishy

Europe uses human waste to fertilize their crops and they seem to have higher food standards than we do.


Fishy

Higher food standards? You obviously haven't been to England and eaten their "food".

no BM, i do not use any thing like that, i feel that they are gimmicks, and are actually synthetic ferts and not organic in any way IMO.. my solutions come in 2 parts per application...

growing: NPK is 7-0-1 and 2-2-5, making it a 9-2-6 fert..

bloom is 4-34-4 and 4-0-1 maing it a 8-34-5...

mix that with a 4-4-4 Dr Earth powdered Organic 7 fertilizer with Mycorrhizae, and you have one hell of a mix... throw in some Super Thrive and i can out grow anyone in this neighborhood even if they use Miracle Grow, or anything of the sorts... Miracle Grow is the by product of production of Petroleum, i dont want that in my food... plus, run off of fertilizers of that sort are the reason for Algea Blooms in streams and lakes and such, another thing i refuse to be part of... i also do not use Pyrethins even if the are deemed "organic" as Pyrethins are organic compounds, but as i said, they are extrememly toxic to fish, and i love fish, so none of that for me either... there are other means of getting rid of Thrips, Mites, Aphids and other such insects that may not be as effective, but work fine for me, just take a little longer...

i also mix Perlite into my soil in the ground as well as containers, alot if not most all people dont mix Perlite in... it helps drastically with aeration and drainage of the soil... try it some time...

i agree Marsha, but i dont over load... i use typically 1/2 to 3/4 of the reccomended amounts...

the liquids are 4 teaspoons of each, which i use anywhere from 2-3 each... the powdered fert is i think 1/2 cup per 5 gallons, of which i use about 1/3 of a cup..

the Organic 7, has Fish Bone Meal, Cottonseed Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Feather Meal, Mined Potassium Sulfate, Kelp Meal and Seaweed Extract.. i sometimes will add Bat Guano, and Earthworm Castings if using other soil than that of Fox Farms, but generally use the Happy Frog and Ocean Forest mixes with spectacular results...

you can also overload with manure as well, depending on how much you put into the soil... if and when (not usually) i do ammend my soil, i use the stuff from the local nursery and farm... but i have not had any bad results that have risen from my processes so far... and thats been about 15 years straight of gardening by myself...

if using Happy Frog, or Ocean Forrest, like i said, its a "hot" soil, if you start pumping ferts into it, you will burn the sh!t out of your plants, just like over fertilizing...

if you have 20 bucks to spend, try a test, grab a bag of the Happy Frog, and whatever other soil you use, and 2 5 gallon buckets... HF in one, your soil in the other, and grow a tomato plant... you will be blown away... but i will tell you right now, the bucket you use with the HF, will be split in half by the end of the season, so you will lose it the hydro solution i use ( im not growing hydroponically when i use this either) is called Gardening Magic, and is only found at 1 store, and its here in Puyallup... if you want to try it, i can get you the number for them...

if you would like to try an outdoor Hydro setup, try Passive Hydroponics, MAKE SURE you use a bucket that is not clear, as you will create Algea and other crap from the sunlight hitting the solution in the resivior... take a 5 gallon bucket, drill a hole 2 inches up from the bottom, and fill it with either 100% Perlite, or a 70-30 mix of Perlite and Vermiculite...start your plant in a peat pellet pot, when sprouted, place inside the pot, i like to go about 1-2 inches below the top of the Perlite to help with stem growth, so they will need to be a little taller than just sprouts... first waterings, use only water, and make sure when you water, you are watering directly into the peat pellet... continue that for about 2 weeks, then start adding the Hydro solutions that i said, once a week, to even once every 2 weeks... when the roots hit the resivior, WATCH OUT, start staking branches, and tying things off... after the roots his the res, you will then only need to water roughly ever 3-5 days, you can tell by the weight of the pot if you need to water... excess water will drain out of the hole you drilled, and once you get the hang of it, you will know the exact amount of water needed and virtually nothing will leak out of the hole....

you wanna put your money where your fat a$$ mouth is Abby?

I am just wondering how you can do that much gardening in an apartment?

Use rabbit poop and straw in the garden. Gotta have a little extra
N2 for the straw to get broken down.
Rabbit poop is good stuff cause it won't burn the plants even when
fresh.

After reading some of Redhook's posts in this thread I think he might be a poster child for not eating organic foods. Scary thought.

My sis is an organic farmer - Colony Creek Farm - in Skagit County, so I'm quite certain that I don't have to grow my own vegetables to be sure that they are organic.

the more people like you salmonsalad eat red meat every day, the more blood pressure drugs are created... have fun with that one, it will catch up to you sooner or later..

and you are a google search from me from looking like a complete dunce...

from the Mayo Clinic, not some fvcked off website..


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/grass-fed-beef/AN02053

another from the Mayo

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/red-meat/MY01329

red meat, every day, wether it be burger, steak, ribs, or whatever, is bad for you...

what was that you were saying?

oh sh!t, heres another reputable site..

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/the-truth-about-red-meat


now what were you saying?

did you read the parts in the articles that said "may have" not "do" ?

obviously not...

the second study is red meat in general, CNN also did a story on it i think this year, that ALL red meat can potentially be bad for you.. which isnt news... and CNN wasnt the only one...

all i know is my veggies are legit, better than any farm, no chemicals used, just care, and patience... if you want to try some, i can sprout some cucs real quick and probably get them by September... English, Pickle or Blondes?

oh and "different" doesnt make it "better for you"... smh...

One of the most foul foods on the face of the earth is grass fed beef from the West side of the state. If you eat it you have no taste buds.

Redhook,

Your "Tomato" garden sounds more like a pot grow than a veggie garden...........

Here is a hint: Google Subcool's super soil. that should give you some more ammo for your organic garden argument....

Wish Doctor Rick was still here, he has a very good understanding of how the standard American diet is completely flawed.

Don't let the government tell you what to eat. They are wrong. Just follow the money, and it is easy to see why 30 years of the fight against obesity has only created more obese people. Eating fat does not make you fat, it doesn't just go into your mouth and end up in your cells. I eat bacon nearly every day, and while I am young my bloodwork numbers are pitch perfect. The trick is to find good bacon.

I am sort-of paleo, I normally never eat bread, or grains, but I make up for it by drinking beer. I enjoy eating that way and it keeps the waist size at least in a normal range.

Keerist some of the things folks do to their food makes me laugh.
Dust thou art, to dust returneth.
Hell we are all gonna end up in the same place, why not have a
pleasant trip? Most of our food intake problems are genetic and
unless you do a lot of genome research, that won't be fixable.
Especially since the alarmists want to shut down all such explorations.

Just in case you didn't know. Mankind ,like Grizzilies and Swine, is
an omnivore.

Being healthy and not fat is pretty enjoyable to me.

Fish on...

Todd

Dr. Rick actually started posting again a couple of weeks ago.

But chow down on all that is Romney cause that is sacrosanct.



Fishy

Instead he's spoon feeding you RWWJ's. Or is he spooning? I can never tell with you people.

thats impossible, as my "garden" is in my front yard directly in front of the house... i also just dont grow tomatos, i grow Dill, Peppers, Cucumbers, Beans, Peas, Raspberrys, Corn, Strawberrys, and whatever else i decide to stick in there... if you are saying that because of my use of Fox Farms soil, explain why every nursery up on this hill sells the stuff... like i said, im taking a break this year, otherwise i would take a picture of it for you... i still may do a early fall crop of Peas and Beans, so you still may get that anyways...

Because there is that many people growing medicinal Mary J........ in the past 2 years indoor garden centers have popped up in every little town here in orygun. might have to do with the 2000+ new medmar patients every month...

Prince, have not heard from you in awhile. was it that Vegas trip?

He's not sure...He is still trying to find out what planet he is on....

I would imagine that would be low on the priority list

Glad Fish Prince is back. At least he seems to understand economics from a conservative's point of view, unlike some posters who share his side of the street.

Understanding economics asides, do conservatives want entitlements or not?

If not where is the howling and calls for this injustice to stop? If yes then why are they not behind "entitlements" for the people that have actually paid for them?


Fishy

Conservatives totally favor entitlements, that is, only if they come in the form of corporate welfare. It's the social entitlements for average Americans, and especially social welfare for the poor, that they disdain. Ne'er the twain shall meet. Contemporary conservative philosophy hates the American middle class based on the actions they propose. The flip side is that many liberals either hate or don't accept economic reality. With a combination like that, I've managed to figure out how the American empire can decline and fall. At least Rome had lead in the water pipes to partially blame.

The young punks don't realize that they too benefited from what the GOP has coined "entiltements" and some are so stupid that they would cut off their nose to spite their face.

Cutting spending is only HALF the solution bringing in revenue is the other side of that equation and anyone who signed allegiance to a DC lobbyist should be tried with treason. All this proves is that the GOP is bought and paid for by lobbyists!


Fishy

I don't see the Dems signing loyalty pledges to lobbyists en-mass, kind of hard to point your finger at someone while your on your knees gorging on all that flows out of the GOP talking holes.


Fishy

Is salmosalacious just having a cerebral tic or has he
always been that dense. Without those he would disenfranchise
he would probably be attempting to speak Deutsch or Japanese.

Personally I believe it is his attempt to author a bit of levity.

No wonder my gross is so large and my net is so small!

AM, I am aware that we have been sold out by both parties but the GOP has done it en-mass which makes their party a total sell out when ALL politicians should be loyal to the people of the USA.

Hank, when the debate gets tough you continue to resort of diatribe and insults, try and keep up with the adults.


Fishy

You tell him AM.

Another; a little-known tale of tax burdens shifted off the rich and onto workers; that the GOPers like to tell tails about.


Fishy

We could eliminate SS disability and Medicaid for those under 55 and save TONS.

The SS office is filled with 20 somethings that have minor back pain, don't wanna' work but want free Oxycontin.

It's become a way of life for losers that have never contributed a GD'd thing.

Where did you get that little tidbit?

1. FoxNews
2. Rush Limbaugh
3. While you were in the SS office sucking off the government teat.
4. You made it up

(I figgered making it multiple choice would make it easier for you...if it's a different answer than one of those, feel free to expound).

Fish on...

Todd

I'm still trying to figure out what "analzin" means, just so I can keep up with the conversation.


Fishy

AM, I do remember having all of the answers, all one had to do was ask me and I would surely tell them.It is not until we grew up did we realize just how much we did not know.

Hopefully nothing bad will happen to him as he grows up and he does not have to use those failed programs that cost his generation so much........


Fishy

I bet that over 95% of the type of criminals who steal billions of dollars in Ponzi schemes, rape pension funds, destroy retirement funds, send entire markets into tailspins, and negatively affect the lives, liberties, and retirements of millions of people, not just in the US of A, but worldwide are...

1. Well over 40.

2. White.

3. Male.

These guys wreak more havoc in one month of their shenanigans than ten pissant drug dealers or social security frauds can wreak in their entire lifetimes, combined...times about 400 Zillion.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. If we spent one month jailing as many of the criminals I described in my last post, and put as many of them in jail as we do to penny ante corner drug dealers or shoplifters, we'd actually do something about crime, and about crime that actually ruins the lives of millions of innocents.

Instead we don't even bother investigating .1% of them criminally, hardly ever even charge any of them with anything much less convict them, and when we do convict them we send them to country clubs with revolving doors where they can lounge by the pool, play golf, and continue with their theivery via cell phone.

There's a reason why our "war on drugs" and "war on crime" forget to go after these guys...these are the guys making the rules.

Many aren't "criminals"...but should be. Many are, but aren't treated like it...and overall a lot more lives are ruined by them than are ruined by drivebys and rapes.

Ruining a handful of lives every time someone is raped or murdered is pretty horrific...ruining millions of lives on a yearly basis is pretty horrific, too, especially when it mostly blamed on those millions of victims that it's their own damn fault.

Fish on...

Todd

I'm pretty sure neither of us is to blame...'cept for that part where you voted for Dumbya

I don't know what "kind" of problem it is...besides a fuckin huge kind...but they're definitely unethical greedy bastards who are all well over 40, male, and white.

Fish on...

Todd

Ok I'll bite....

1. Don't watch

2. Don't watch/listen to-or like

3. From dipchits (unemployed not unlike you) that state the same.

4. Don't need to because I don't live in my mommas basement.

If you think that SS disability is not abused by youngster-losers you've just lumped yourself as one.

Did expound enough? I typed slow as to help your profound stupidity.

PS---The FOX news/Rush Limbaugh angle may get a giggle outta' other dipchits like you but it shows that you've nothing else to argue. INOW you lose on the face of your 'contention'.

[quote=Toddbut they're definitely unethical greedy bastards who are all well over 40, male, and white.

Fish on...

Todd [/quote]

Sounds like a typical GOPer to me!


Fishy

Todd and his Mom are tag teaming again....

Rage on...

S. salar,

It started before the Boomers. The "Greatest Generation" was in charge when SS and Medicare began, and they conveniently taxed themselves at such low rates that the vast preponderance of what they've drawn on has been paid for by Boomers. The average member of the GG, if they lived to collect SS, got everything they paid in plus interest in a little over a year, and definitely less than two years of retirement. Yet they believe they have not lived in retirement on the dole. My mother, an 87 year old member of the GG, and a bookkeeper by trade, when presented with the data, doesn't believe it, and like most, insist that they are just receiving in SS what they contributed plus interest. Is it any wonder SS is on the brink and so touch and go for us Boomers, who began retiring 3 years ago?

As one of the Boomer exceptions who is analytical by nature, I readily admit that the Boomers, instead of launching and creating the Age of Aquarius, instead took our parent generation's example, and have magnified it. We have known for slightly more than 30 years about the SS and related problems and collectively have chosen to essentially ignore it, and exacerbate it.

I'm looking to retire in less than 3 years, and SS would be a little more than a third of my retirement income. But if the US is to attain fiscal solvency, it will necessarily become less, which does lead to some problems, but starvation won't be one of them. I anticipate the turnaround to come when a majority of the Boomers discover than a significant reduction in their SS benefits is a better alternative than running it over the edge and losing even more.

What's this thread about?

Sg

Trying to get a leg up on redhook this week, Chuck?

RvW, then how much of the SS costs do you think are really associated with 20-somethings who admit to you that they just do it for the oxycontin?

They really admit that to you?

Fish on...

Todd

That's at least 3/4 of the way to zing material, Mr. decider of zing.

That's true Aunty...they are also the ones we REFUSE to do business with. My partner and I will NOT enable their destructive lifestyle no matter how profitable it would be. I'd just as soon close up and do something else than I would aid in their self-destruction.

It's also not too difficult to recognize the signs and symptoms of the pie-eyed emptiness many exhibit. The sad trend that has become prescription addiction has broad reaching costs, not just to SS. There are, admittedly, some folks that aren't total wasteoids (yet) that we don't catch. It doesn't take long before a parent sadly explains the predicament to us. My heart breaks for them and the children they love.

Prescription addiction has no socio-economic implications like other drugs. We see rich kids, poor kids, white kids, black kids and asian kids. They all share one common denominator...they Dr. shop and work the disability angle. There are countless ruthless Drs that should burn in hell for what they're doing!

Hell odd you must be talking about some of the monied ones
behind the O guy. Guys like Soros and so forth.

I don't think the Koch brothers backed Obama.......



Fishy

We don't care about all that Aunty, I am just glad to see Stihl Chainsaws is a sponsor to the site you posted the link on

Subsidies for sugar?GMAFB We all know without those subsidies there would be no more sugar since it's such a rare ingredient in our foods.

Poor sugar farmers...

I'd like to see virtually all farm subsidies chit-canned.

Wouldn't an end to sugar subsidies just encourage more use of subsidized high fructose corn syrup?

Maybe in your little ignorant world Mcmahon. Have someone read the rest of my post to you, pull your head out of your k unt and stop acting like a phvcking idiot.

...too much to hope for, I know....

So you're for sugar subsidies?

No chit Hank.

We all know that if sweeteners weren't propped up that the world would be a bitter place.

Mcmahon is obviously a big government, entitlement whore. Or an idiot in hyperglycemic shock.

It wasn't a reply to your post you narcissistic kunt. Go sell some more stolen goods.

Fish on...

Todd

Your reply indicates otherwise dipchit.

Your failure to navigate even the most simple of tasks is telling....funny but telling.

Does this mean Cuban sugar will be more competitively priced for
the North American market? Not.
And they grumble about unfair government aid to some of our
competitors.

You must be off your meds this morning if you really believe that.

Fish on...

Todd

WTF does Obama have to do with GOP all of a sudden being a bastion of truthfulness? There's no connection between the two at all.

Fish on...

Todd

I'd only expect a post like that from redhook, or some GOP ballwasher like Hank.

Certainly not from any sane person.

Right.

"No Child Left Behind" was about leaving no children behind.

And the "Clean Air Act" was about clean air.

Yeah, Obama is a liar and a donkey. You're still wrong about the GOP.

It's probably me not paying attention, huh?

Lyingest sonofabitch that ever stepped into the Oval Office.
If that fukers mouth is moving, he's lying.

?????????????

So Hank could literally become the azzwipe he acts like?

Fishy

Damn, maybe some folks have Ranty dead to rights when they talk
about sanity. Even tho I thought O was a used car salesman until they
told me he was a community organizer. Vladimir loves him. And he is
a lying Sas.

And...back to the ballpark of the original topic...

http://www.fooddemocracynow.org/blog/2012/jun/14/senators_sanders_and_boxer_farm_bill_label_gmos/

Senators Sanders and Boxer Announce Farm Bill Amendment To Label GMOs!
Posted by Dave on June 14, 2012


Just when you thought courage in Washington DC had died, Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) took to the Senate floor this morning and announced amendment SA 2256 to the Farm Bill to label genetically engineered foods.


Sanders, who is joined on this amendment by co-sponsor Barbara Boxer (D-CA), gave an historic speech from the Senate floor, repeating what Food Democracy Now! members have known for years, that Americans have a basic "right to know what they're eating and feeding their families".

Sanders historic speech was punctuated with painful facts about Americans being denied the Right to Know due to the powerful corporate interests of biotech chemical and seed giant Monsanto and other agricultural biotech companies. From the Senate floor, Sanders mentioned the most recent travesty to occur this spring in his own home state, when Vermont state legislators were threatened by Monsanto and other biotech bullies that the state would be sued if it passed a reasonable and common sense labeling law that informed Vermont citizens which foods they bought contain GMOs.


Sanders speech contained many facts reported by Food Democracy Now! about how:
•Nearly 50 countries around the world already allow GMO labeling.
•A recent Canadian study found that 93% of pregnant women contain the genetically engineered Bt toxin in their blood.

•Monsanto's Roundup tolerant GMOs have led to the rise of superweeds that now infest more than 10 million acres in 22 states - Predicted to reach 40 million acres by mid-decade.

In an impassioned plea to his fellow Senators, Sanders touched on the growing movement of citizens concerned about their what's in their food:


"All over this country, people are becoming more conscious about the foods they are eating and the foods they are serving to their kids, and this is certainly true for genetically-engineered foods," Sanders said. "I believe that when a mother goes to the store and purchases food for her child, she has the right to know what she is feeding her child."

Sanders also rebutted Monsanto's and the biotech industry's favorite line saying "GMO food labels will not raise food prices."

Below is the text of the Sanders-Boxer Amendment:


SA 2256 - CONSUMERS RIGHT TO KNOW ABOUT GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOOD ACT.



SA 2256. Mr. SANDERS (for himself and Mrs. BOXER) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 3240, to reauthorize agricultural programs through 2017, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:

On page 1009, after line 11, add the following:

SEC. 12207. CONSUMERS RIGHT TO KNOW ABOUT GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOOD ACT.

(a) Short Title.--This section may be cited as the ``Consumers Right to Know About Genetically Engineered Food Act''.

(b) Findings.--Congress finds that--

(1) surveys of the American public consistently show that 90 percent or more of the people of the United States want genetically engineered or modified foods to be labeled as such;

(2) a landmark public health study in Canada found that--

(A) 93 percent of pregnant women had detectable toxins from genetically engineered or modified foods in their blood; and

(B) 80 percent of the babies of those women had detectable toxins in their umbilical cords;

(3) the tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States clearly reserves powers in the system of Federalism to the States or to the people; and

(4) States have the authority to require the labeling of foods produced through genetic engineering or derived from organisms that have been genetically engineered.

(c) Definitions.--In this section:

(1) GENETIC ENGINEERING.--

(A) IN GENERAL.--The term ``genetic engineering'' means a process that alters an organism at the molecular or cellular level by means that are not possible under natural conditions or processes.

(B) INCLUSIONS.--The term ``genetic engineering'' includes--

[Page: S3908]

(i) recombinant DNA and RNA techniques;

(ii) cell fusion;

(iii) microencapsulation;

(iv) macroencapsulation;

(v) gene deletion and doubling;

(vi) introduction of a foreign gene; and

(vii) changing the position of genes.

(C) EXCLUSIONS.--The term ``genetic engineering'' does not include any modification to an organism that consists exclusively of--

(i) breeding;

(ii) conjugation;

(iii) fermentation;

(iv) hybridization;

(v) in vitro fertilization; or

(vi) tissue culture.

(2) GENETICALLY ENGINEERED AND GENETICALLY MODIFIED INGREDIENT.--The term ``genetically engineered and genetically modified ingredient'' means any ingredient in any food, beverage, or other edible product that--

(A) is, or is derived from, an organism that is produced through the intentional use of genetic engineering; or

(B) is, or is derived from, the progeny of intended sexual reproduction, asexual reproduction, or both of 1 or more organisms described in subparagraph (A).

(d) Right to Know.--Notwithstanding any other Federal law (including regulations), a State may require that any food, beverage, or other edible product offered for sale in that State have a label on the container or package of the food, beverage, or other edible product, indicating that the food, beverage, or other edible product contains a genetically engineered or genetically modified ingredient.

(e) Regulations.--Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Commissioner of Food and Drugs and the Secretary of Agriculture shall promulgate such regulations as are necessary to carry out this section.

(f) Report.--Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the Commissioner of Food and Drugs, in consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture, shall submit a report to Congress detailing the percentage of food and beverages sold in the United States that contain genetically engineered or genetically modified ingredients.

****************

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Get rid of the corn and sugar subsidies while they're at it, and we'd have a farm bill worth enacting.

Todd thanks for bringing this thing full circle with that very interesting article.

I should not be stunned and amazed that in what is supposed to be one of the most technologically advanced countries on the planet we don't know what the heck we are eating because lobbyists are so powerful.

I sure hope this gains the traction it needs to pass.


Fishy

what's that famous line?

Oh, yeah...

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

(Gotta love it)

Kotex Kid is an example of a abortion gone wrong.

To KK.......Sweetheart, Grow the FU!
While I attack entities that deceive or outright lie, you attack people. Because your dipshittyness (a word for Dan) mostly goes unchecked, I've made an exception for you and your ilk, and will likely continue to do so. You have to ability to impress, at least on the surface...beyond that I have seen no evidence of anything above your shoulders in any sort of working order.
I don't give a good gawd damn whether you were required to suckle until age 20, or sleep with goats, or play with blow-ups, or whatever it is that makes you so charming, at some point your blame game about your personal choices needs to end.

or not.

I'm thinking you only have one crease across your palm......right?

Actually glad to see KK back from that other venue. He is so damn
funny in his chumming technique. Never fails, insult someone mortally
in four letter word jargon an watch the stuff hit the fan.
I suspect, no matter how anoxic, there are actually some convolutions twixt his ears. I assume he has ears. Love handles
perhaps.

Wow I can hear the GOP talking heads exploding right now, the hubris, the audacity of questioning that we not go along with their propaganda machines call for less rules and regulations, what do we think their going to do, hurt or kill us?

Monsanto must have some great lobbyists, scumbags!

Fishy

If you don't know what you are eating why would you eat it? People make the choice becasue its easy and cheap it has nothing to do with product labeling. It's always someone elses fault.

It's not just labeling. Even though you Corporate apologists think it's OK to poison people, soil and water, others don't. If it's labeled, more people will choose alternatives that are less harmful to the planet.


I doubt it the choice has been there all along, proof source did the labels on ciggaretes ever stop you from smoking? be honest.

Its just an easy traget if people looked at chemicals in their life in terms of exposure, food would be way down the list.